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Re: Adaptation field use in ULE / MPG2-TS specification



So... as I recall, the rationale behind the current rev. was:

1) There was no stated requirement for the Adaptation Field
when used with ULE, if this requirement has emerged, then
I think we need to know what function is being propossed
and why this is performed at the MPEG-2 layer, rather than
at the IP/Ethernet layers. Please send text!

2) There is a cost at adding Adaptation Field processing, in
that it impacts implementation/performance of the ULE receiver.
This has a performance hit, if it is mandatory to support it.
If it is optional, then there is a compatability hit.

Thoughts?

Gorry

P.S. Note: ULE does *NOT* use the PES syntax for the data
sent on these streams.

William StanisLaus wrote:

Here ULE is not preventing use of lower level MPEG2 packet header fields, rather we should figure out why we drop the packet based on the adaptation field control, is there any reason behind to specify in the draft to drop packets other than AFC is "01" In the case of adaptation field, which is coupled with MPEG2-TS header, itself will be decoded and action could have taken well before the control reaches ULE. Hence the goal of adaptation field is accomplished, if it is going to be a sequential/linear processing. But the question is, when the AFC is "11" in such case MPEG2-TS payload contains both adaptation field private section data and actual payload (SNDU), SNDU payload processing will be dropped as per the ULE draft. Best Regards,
William.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk
    [mailto:owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk]On Behalf Of Allison, Art
    Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 6:51 PM
    To: 'ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk'
    Subject: RE: Adaptation field use in ULE / MPG2-TS specification

    I agree with Tor (and am a bit chagrined that I didn't notice
    this). The ULE draft should not prevent use of the 'lower' level
    MPEG-2 packet header fields, and that included the adaptation
    field.  A key concept ( Tor's point #2) in MPEG-2 systems is the
    layering with each layer having a separable function. Building
    vertically integrated designs that constrain this reduce long term
    flexibility and can have other impacts like the one Tor identified.
However, now that I glance at the header structure...to send this
    data in TS packets, 'payload start indicator'  must be set to a
    value. It is one bit, where 0= no PES start in this packet, and 1=
    PES or PSI start in this packet. Suggest define that it be set to 0.
Art
    ::{)>
    Art Allison
    Director Advanced Engineering
    NAB
    1771 N St NW
    Washington DC 20036
    202 429 5418

        -----Original Message-----
        From: William StanisLaus [mailto:williams@calsoft.co.in]
        Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 8:18 AM
        To: ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk
        Subject: RE: Adaptation field use in ULE / MPG2-TS specification

        Hi Marie-Jose,
            I understand your point here about extension headers. But
        actually Adaptation field specified here is part of
        MPEG2-TS header and not ULE, in that case even ULE is a
        payload for MPEG2-TS. If adaption field control is 10 or 11 in
        bits, MPEG2-TS contains private adaption field, and incase of
        "10" we need not care about anything, but still ULE draft says
        anything other than " 01" in AFC, receiver MUST discard.
            Thanks for your comment Tor Brekke, but i wonder why we
        have such limitation in ULE, even though we are not worried in
        ULE about the MPEG2-TS private section of Adaption field, if
        we are not going to take any action based on the adaption
        field and control field we can just ignore. I see this as an
        implementation issue and should not be limited in
        specification/draft.
transport_packet(){ sync_byte 8 bslbf transport_error_indicator 1 bslbf payload_unit_start_indicator 1 bslbf transport_priority 1 bslbf PID 13 uimsbf transport_scrambling_control 2 bslbf adaptation_field_control 2 bslbf continuity_counter 4 uimsbf
                if(adaptation_field_control=='10' ||
        adaptation_field_control=='11'){
                      adaptation_field()
                }
                if(adaptation_field_control=='01' ||
        adaptation_field_control=='11') {
                     for (i=0;i<N;i++){
data_byte 8 bslbf
                    }
               }
        }
here N data_byte's is SNDU as specified by ULE. Also ULE cannot limit anything on exisiting underlying
        protocol as such MPEG2-TS. But definitly it can limit or
        provide more services to above layers.
Best Regards,
        William StanisLaus
        CalSoft, Nortel Networks Division
            -----Original Message-----
            From: owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk
            [mailto:owner-ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk]On Behalf Of
            Marie-Jose Montpetit
            Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 4:00 PM
            To: ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk
            Subject: Re: Adaptation field use in ULE / MPG2-TS
            specification

            Thanks for you input. If you follow recent discussions
            there is a proposal to use extension headers in ULE to
            support system specific signalling (and other). It would
            be interesting to know more about how you process the
            information but I think our philosophy would be to use the
            headers in the same way as you describe: transparent to
            system who do not know what to do with them, processed by
            the ones who do. This is consistent with IPv6 extension
            headers and also with other implementations of extension
            headers (cable for example).
So I do believe we could use ULE in RCS. Actually in a
            recent study sponsored by ESA we showed that for traffic
            with a lot of ACK bursts (http: for example) ULE was very
            efficient because of it's packing capability.
Again thanks for your input. Marie-Jose
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Tor Brekke <mailto:tor.brekke@nbs.nera.no>
                To: ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk <mailto:ip-dvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
                Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 3:02 AM
                Subject: Adaptation field use in ULE / MPG2-TS
                specification


                Hello,

                I am jumping into this discussion at a fairly late
                stage. Having just read the ULE draft I have to make a
                comment about the use of the adaptation field though.
                In the draft it says that "TS Packets from a ULE
                Encapsulator MUST be sent with an AFC value of '01'",
                i.e. without adaptation field. Now the adaptation
                field contains a private field which according to the
                MPG2-TS specification (ISO/IEC 13818-1) can be used to
transmit system dependent data. Now to the question: Why is this limitation imposed on ULE?
                I have two main reasons to ask this.
                1) Firstly there is ongoing work to use the private
                adaptation field for network internal signalling in
                the DVB-RCS standard. This means that ULE will not
                work over DVB-RCS systems employing the adaptation
                field signalling.
                2) As far as I have been able to determine all other
                encapsulation forms over MPG2-TS are transparent to
                the adaptation field, i.e. the adaptation field and
                payload are handled independently (even though there
                may be an implicit connection between them). It seems
                strange to break this logicinf the MPG2- TS mechanism
                for a new encapsulation type.

                Best Regards
                Tor Brekke
Nera Broadband Satellite AS.